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leavemealone
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(Date Posted:03/14/2007 9:56 AM)

So, as many of you know, we often receive calls wherein deaf people are trying to arrange for an interpreter for an appointment of some kind. I know its required for all public, law, educational and medical services (i.e. "essential services"). That makes sense. You can't have a deaf person going in for surgery and not understanding what's going to be cut up. Hehe.

HOWEVER, why do we seem to be getting more and more calls from deaf people insisting they get an interpreter for every damn little thing? And what exactly is the law on this? I looked on the ADA website, and it says only ESSENTIAL services must provide an interpreter.

I'm getting pretty sick of deafies calling places like restaurants, stores, and hair salons saying the business must provide an interpreter or they're going to sue them. Some of them damn near bully the business into getting one when its not even required. They scare them with lawsuit threats, and *bam* the person says they'll get an interpreter! Ugh!

And how does it work with employment? In order for a company to hire a deaf person, they can't have to hire an interpreter too. That would be madness. Paying two people for one job? Somehow I don;t think that's how it works. I'm pretty sure its "reasonable" accommodations for a disability (uh oh! naughty word). Yet, I once took a call where a deafie insisted that if they were hired, a full-time interpreter would have to follow them around all day. Ummm....don't think so.

So maybe Speedial can fill us in on the laws for this. I'm curious as to when its required by law for an interpreter to be present. I'm pretty certain its not necessary to have when ordering at Red Lobster. (Yeah! You know who you are! Thanks for making me swear at the poor Red Lobster manager!)

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Hello gudday do u have (clean running autos bought for high prices!) for sales qq gaga

Lieutenant Uhura
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(Date Posted:03/15/2007 1:06 AM)

Whoa, that's nuts! I haven't really encountered this, but that's probably because only 1 in 10 of my calls is actually a deaf person [] I'd be interested to see some input on this as well.

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(opr talk like the Terminator)



(opr use Borat voice pls)



"Operator, can"t you use a sexier voice?"

Die Mofo
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(Date Posted:03/15/2007 1:58 AM)

This is a very good topic leavemealone. I'm glad you brought it up. Personally, I don't see how any place should be forced to pay for an interpreter period. They sure as hell aren't cheap! Although jury duty would have to be an exception since that's an obligation. I'd love Speedial's input on this though. She would certainly know better than us what the laws cover.

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redail get rep alive

Zekora
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(Date Posted:03/15/2007 9:58 AM)

I've never come across this either but its a very good point and I will pay a lot more attention to what kind of businesses the text user is demanding a terp for. Now if I ever have to call Red Lobster demanding one, I'm gonna be worried, lol =)

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pls baby pls i need money 200 dollars for medical i am unconscious

speedial 1
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(Date Posted:03/15/2007 4:25 PM)

Hello everyone- ah interpreters and the ADA- a biggie. I have the website here of the National Association of the Deaf which covers this in detail. I have included most of the section on workplace "rights". Note at the end that a business can get tax credit and reembursement for much if not all of this "stuff". I will include some of my own comments at the end. Obviously these regulations are for d/Deaf employees- similiar guidlines are in place for blind and other disabled people such as orthopedically and neuologically /mentally disabled etc.. I don't know if alcoholics and drug addicts are still considered "disabled". At one time they were; but I doubt the ADA asked the employer to provide alcohol or drugs and time to take them   to the employee , although in our country one never knows--we have an interesting system here.


http://www.nad.org/site/pp.asp?c=foINKQMBF&b=101229  this site give more than workplace accomodations- but it's a start. By the way a work place needs to have 15 or more employees to have to do any of this, I believe. That leaves a lot of workplaces  that aren't required to and don't provide anything.


Here is a synopsis:


The ADA requires employers to make sure that deaf employees or job applicants can communicate effectively when necessary. This includes special occasions and meetings, training, job evaluations, and communication concerning work, discipline or job benefits. It also includes regular work-related communication and employee-sponsored benefits and programs.
Examples of reasonable accommodation include:


provision of interpreters or transcribers for meetings and for conferences with supervisors or co-workers, for general safety or employment meetings, for health programs, for training (both on-site and off-site)


establishing policies and procedures for procuring necessary interpreter or transcription services


TTYs, video relay service equipment and software, instant messaging software, amplified telephones, and/or flashing ringers for work-related telephone duties, intra- and inter-office communication needs, and for personal use during lunch and break periods


installation of flashing lights on smoke alarms and on equipment


installation of assistive listening systems in auditoriums and meeting rooms to benefit workers who use hearing aids or other amplification devices


installation of barriers or muffling to control ambient noise levels


installation of televisions equipped with decoding capability, to display closed captions on televised or videotaped information shown to employees


permission to bring trained hearing assistance dogs into the workplace


modification of intercom entry systems to permit deaf people to enter secured building entrances



Employers may deduct the cost of accommodations, and may be eligible for special tax credits to assist in the provision of reasonable accommodations.


Failure to provide necessary accommodations may subject an employer to liability. Complaints of discrimination based on failure to provide reasonable accommodations should be filed with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC).


Now for my comments. Even though the above sounds clear it can be a little vague-  many workplaces don't really provide anything until asked. Since, as I mentioned in a previous post, most Deaf come out of school with a 5th grade reading level, so the way the ask for (or demand help) can be an issue- especially among "militants". Many d/Deaf don't know or don't ask for anything- others are very specific  about their needs and expectations. It's a blend and you probably get them all!


Often Deaf have menial jobs due to the communication lack, no matter how well educated or skilled. In additon, no matter what,  the Deaf employee is usually works alone- that is, they are only Deaf person around. They come to work in alone, spend the work day alone, eat alone, take breaks alone and go home alone.  I know some Deaf well educated, very English knowledgable and with good jobs , who have worked for many years in one  place- and no one ever speaks to them!  Since many Deaf can't or don't speak (this has been discussed in previous posts) and communication has to be "active" i.e. pen and paper or gesture etc. any interaction with Deaf is often time consuming and tedious, so the reality is it doesn't often happen, unless it's really important to the hearing person or company.


As far as health settings- it can be bad. A lot of doctors and hospitals use video interpreting services now (because it is cheaper)- that is using an interpreter in a differant location and utilizing cameras between the Deaf and interpreter. The relationship between interpreter and the quality of the interpretation can be so poor that good lipreaders would almost prefer to do that rather then what they get by these video interpreting services . In any case - communication with hearing is always an active rather then the passive process for the d/Deaf. No matter what the method, the nature of it is that the deaf person doesn't get much of the necessary information in the workplace- and next to nothing socially. I can speak for myself on that one. I am fortunate in that my speech is quite intelligible (I still work at it after all these years), but still until people know I can speak- I get ignored. I am used to it, however and have the benefit of initiating conversation, which takes the burden and discomfort off of the hearing person.


I could go on because there is a lot to be said but this post is getting long. Please feel free to ask specifics, I 'll be glad to help. I guess the bottom line is  it is a constant stuggle for d/Deaf to integrate and feel they are getting the full benefit of information, no matter what the situation. We still get reamed out / fired for not following a procedure or policy which we knew nothing about. It's the nature of being d/Deaf. Other than that all is well with the world!


 

smoothloperator
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(Date Posted:03/22/2007 1:56 PM)

I guess my question becomes then, who is at fault for, what frankly seems like, such BAD education of/for deaf people?  WHY does the average deaf person only have a 5th grade reading level, and sometimes seemingly LOWER social skills set?


And then my question becomes, for those deaf that DO go on to college, why does it seem that many (note I didn't say all!) STILL have NOT learned past that reading level and skill set?  Why are they not being taught how to function in society?  Especially at the college level!  WHY can't a student at Gallaudet not spell the word pepperoni or know how to properly converse with someone without becoming hostile and rude, or know how to conduct a phone call in an efficient maneer?  Honestly, some of THE WORST relay users are Galaudet students who take 2 minutes to respond to someone's hello and then get vulgar when they get hung up on cause Dominoes decided to NOT spend time they can make money waiting for people to type things cause they're on their computers calling and browsing websites and probably doing other things they forget they're on the "phone".


WHY can't most deaf people navigate their online banking or credit card sites?  Seriously they are NOT that hard to do, and about 200% MORE SECURE than going through Relay.  I've used online bill-pay and banking for over 7 years and have had NO issues at all. *knock on wood*  Where as with relay, you're ASSUMING that all ops are good and decent people who wouldn't dream of doing dishonest things on calls....BAD assumption.  Think for a second that you're transmitting through some random operator you don't know, THE most identifying things about you.  If an operator wanted to we could have your name, address, phone, email, ssn, credit card, mothers maiden name, and a host of other things....  How is having  a PERSON in the middle more secure than going through an encrypted secure website where you and only you are involved in what's going on??


And why is it that so many deaf people don't grasp this concept....
Paying bills = you get service
NOT paying bills = you get your service suspended or shut off!


It's not say, T-mobiles fault you can't manage your money well enough to have enough to pay your cell bill each month.  It's not the electric companies fault you don't have enough money to keep the lights on.  It happens to EVERYONE when they don't pay their bills.  But NO other group gets away with getting fees waved or breaks on their payments like deaf people...the same ones that do NOT want to be labeled as disabled...throwing around their deafness as an EXCUSE for why they didn't pay. 


 


As far as hiring people with disabilites, it's "reasonable accomidations"...meaning if you have someone who can't stand for hours at a cash register, you get them a chair to use.  You let a diabetic have extra breaks to make sure they don't colapse (I have seen this happen at past jobs!), you give people who are mentally challenged easier jobs to do (like at a grocery store, most times they're baggers or something that's fairly repetative and easy)....But DEMANDING a business go over-board is unreasonable, and most businesses won't go for it.    It's like saying a Deaf person could do IP Relay, but they'd have to have an interpreter with them the whole time .  it's like saying a Blind person could be a truck-driver, as long as they have a sighted companion to tell them they're driving in the right lanes.  It makes no sense.  When certain aspects of communication are REQUIRED to do the job there are instances where a business won't compromise and shouldn't have to.


 


As far as socializing, that deaf people are isolated is not 100% the fault of other employees.    Just like anyone else if a deaf person makes the effort to communicate with their coworkers, in all odds many will respond.  I think it'd surprise a LOT of deaf people how  many hearing people would react.  And if people are really interested in communicating, things can go from writting with pen and paper to  the hearing person learning some signing...or vocal conversation.  I've never worked with anyone deaf, but have had a deaf customer at a previous job who chose to communicate through writting down his requests.  Our managment actually made a point to learn some basic signs to communicate and to tell us how to say "hello", "thank you", and how to guide them towards a product they wanted in a very professional way.      But if a deaf person CHOOSES to isolate themselves, then that's THEIR choice.  The average other coworker might think they enjoy being alone and not socializing.  In every work place there ARE Loaners who don't want to associate with other people and want personal time.    Plenty of hearing people get fired over policies they didn't know about either, or for whatever reason at all, so that's not a phenominon  that only occours with deaf people.

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Verizon = Devil

Relay needs REFORM NOW!

speedial 1
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(Date Posted:03/22/2007 6:43 PM)

Ah Smooth you have asked some really pointed and difficult to answer questions. The difficulty comes because as with any other group of people, disabled or not, it is very difficult to relay ones life experience. I have a friend who has had type one diabetes almost from birth. On the surface she conducts her life as anyone else. The reality is now after decades of multiple blood testing, injections and dietary management she is "burned out" from her diabetic life style- if it could be called that. She tires of the above and also about worries about diabetic neuropathy, blindness, and possible amputations. Her diabetes is never really something that she forgets. Someone who is paraplegic or has cerebral palsy or MS too has their lives filled with modifications and concerns of one sort or another, but you as RO's aren't involved in the details of these people's lives. You don't deal with their anger and frustration. If you yourself have a disability or are a minority, perhaps you can have an appreciation of the above. You are an integral part of a Deaf person's life- as an interpreter would be- like it or not.



Deafness has its own unique set of circumstances, some of which cannot be fully appreciated by hearing. I'm not sure if I should try again here as I think I have mentioned many of the problems and concerns in the past. But here goes...



Firstly, learning a language one has never heard is just plain hard! If a child does not get the aural feedback that is, hear their own voice, they don't have a mechanism for correcting or learning to speak . A human child's brain in a matter of several months up to maybe three years looses those brain cells that can transmit those messages-even it stimulated latter. It is not just hearing, but all the senses. If child blind from birth, could miraculously regain their vision in adulthood they wouldn't recognize anything unless they could close their eyes and feel it. The "cured" blind person could not tell an orange from a paper clip until they "learned to see", in this case using their sense of touch as feedback. The Deaf never get that feedback.



In order to read one needs to know the alphabet and get the idea each letter and each group of letters is a symbol for something bigger. If one wants to learn to speak in addition to read one needs to learn each letter has a sound- sounds are combined into syllables, syllables into words, words, sentence etc. If you can't hear the letters it's mighty hard getting to understand the purpose of these "symbols", and therefore become proficient with the rest of the process be it reading, speaking or lipreading.



Speaking of course, is worse- how do you reproduce accurately what you haven't heard? Then how do you take some "funny mouth movement" you see people making and translate that into the fact those movements stand for sounds and the sounds to words the words you have never heard- and what's worse take those funny mouth movements and reproduce them yourself - accurately in order to produce a sound you never heard- how do you know even that you are creating a sound forget pitch, and volume!



I venture to say there are many hearing people who can't read- why is that? Remove the segment of the population that has a learning disability and you still have thousands of hearing who can't read- even in this century, why is that? They can hear and speak but not read or write- why is that? If reading is a huge struggle where is the incentive to read? Why would someone who struggles with math become a statistician? If you are struggling you don't give it a priority and soon the struggle doens't seem worth the effort, if it?s not a priority you don't practice, if you don't practice you don't become proficient. Should a child stay in the first grade until they are 7? 9? 10? 25? Perhaps you had a subject you really hated or just couldn't get in school. Then imagine have to put hundreds of hours into that subject- I'm not sure how many of hours, days, weeks, months, years to obtain proficiency.



I think too it's important for you to remember you are often seeing people at their worst because you are in a position to be a part of their lives. I know many people especially seniors, but others also, who don't trust the phones, don't have, trust or know how to use computers, and just aren't competent to carry on business effectively. If these people can hear you RO's never get to interact with them. You don't know they can't read, or write or maybe aren't very bright or perhaps don't understand English etc. Those people are invisible to you, but are out there- maybe having friends and family acting as "operators".



We, in a way are naked before you, with our most personal matters entrusted to you. Do you really think we want to expose ourselves this way? On one hand you ask that we see you as "invisible" and ask that we trust you and on the other we are to know you're there, and human and not trust you? We are at your mercy. We know you are human, but some of us don't have all the options you think we do. We trust you because we have to. If you speak about us "behind our back" or to each other or to others- if we aren't known to those people with whom you speak- personally I don't care. I worked in a medical job for many years and I can truly say that despite discussing general information or an "interesting story" about a patient (who remained anonymous) I never, ever betrayed a trust, confidance, or divulged personal information inappropriately- never. In addition I never came to know anyone who did. That is just the way it was.



Some Deaf may believe because you can hear you can in some way help them-they know the rules but somewhere believe because you are hearing you will have a closer relationship with the person we are calling, and therefore the process will be easier. We perhaps give you more credit then we should, but it's a subtly that's hard to explain.



Unfortunately, taking our frustration and anger out on you, displaces it from us- like taking the anger of a crummy day by yelling at another family member or pet. Undeserved by you but in a weird way a sign of closeness- I know it's unfair, but it's there just the same.



Rudeness and anger often are born out of feelings of inadequacy. In addition blaming someone else for a "snag" in handling the details of life diminishes the reality of ones own inadequacies. This is true for hearing and Deaf- but you don't interact with the hearing or competent Deaf in this way, so you don't see it.



As far as the workplace and socializing with the d/Deaf; if you have any appreciation for anything I say please understand and try to appreciate deafness is by nature isolating. I can't stress this enough. It takes real courage for someone who uses a foreign language or who knows they can't be understood verbally to come up to a stranger, start a conversation and sweat bullets trying to appear calm outside while struggling to understand their response without having to ask them to repeat themselves over and over or worse write down entire conversations. It is difficult- very difficult- even when you can speak a response. No one wants to appear "stupid" or foolish. Being deaf often means one appears both.



As far as being demanding- well many disabled are demanding- it's not unique to the Deaf. Often "disabled" people don't have a concept of what a non disabled person has to do to accommodate their needs. In addition, there is the feeling that if one does not demand one will be "passed over", ignored, or provided with less- and guess what? It happens. It can be hard to maintain ones dignity when you are starting out on uneven grounds, and have nothing but your words to "fight back".



There is so much more to be said but I don't think anyone here wants to read a book! Please trust me when I say- It isn't easy to be d/Deaf, and I see it is also difficult being a RO f or the deaf. Please remember you see us all with our weaknesses exposed-we don't see you and your weaknesses. The Deaf who can use other methods of getting their business done, who are competent in English, who speak etc. are conducting most aspects of their lives without you- you don't see them you don't interact with them. Please try not to judge all of us by the select population with whom you help.



You are needed, appreciated and valued by many including myself. There just isn't a good way for those of us who feel this way to tell you.